And Meat Mutant did look upon E4F, and fall on its face.
Joe:Golly gee, Dr. Emma, I'd rather have each one of my bones surgically replaced with centipedes than listen to another minute of Evidence 4 Faith.
Emma: But nDr. Joe, however else might we boost our ratings? Your topics are creative, certainly, but I don't think Religious Beliefs of the Cast of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo is going to be the one that launches our meteoric rise.
Joe: I know, we'll just get Meat Mutant to listen, while we sit outside this nondescript location.
Emma: And cook fragrant barbeque in case Meat Mutant gets ideas. What could go wrong!?
- typical horrid gurgling noises as Joe places Meat Mutant in front of an episode of Evidence 4 Faith*
- Emma and Joe's contented barbeque munching*
- Meat Mutant begins to scream abyssal screams that will haunt all nightmares for trillions of years to come*
Joe: Oh, Kirk must have finally popped in a sentence. Meat Mutant must be hollering with joy, Kirk Hastings is the best chew toy.
Emma: If the roof coming off is any indication, I'd wager those aren't screams of joy.
- sound of a roof coming off, followed by monster movie roar. I make your life so easy, Ems*
Joe: OH GOD, IT'S LIKE STARING INTO THE FACE OF CHAOS ITSELF
Emma: WHAT HATH OUR HUBRIS WROOOOUOOUGHT!?
Joe: WROUGHT WHAT HATH OUR HUUUUUBRIIIIIS?
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgT9gy4zQA 1:58--2:06
- Angels sang out in an immaculate chorus
- Down from the heavens, descended Chuck MORRISON
Chuck: Don't worry, bestest podcast buddies, I'm here for you.
Joe: Took you fucking long enou I MEAN PRAAAISE BEEEEEE
- Meat Mutant roars*
Emma: Quickly, Chuck, before Meat Mutant wreaks vengeance upon all of humanity, and causes everything to smell like bacon!! Wait, that might not be so bad...
Joe: Use your FINISHER MOVE
Chuck: SUPREME ULTIMATE KILLER COSMIC WAVE: NUMBERS FLOATING FROM SPACE!!
- the sound of gigantic numbers falling from space and crushing Meat Mutant*
- Meat Mutant's anguished wailing, ended with a whimper, a massive discontinuity whimper since he'll be perfectly fine next time he shows up*
Joe: So... we kind of need your help to tangle with Evidence 4 Faith again.
Chuck: I don't know, hideous abominations that would make the Great Old Ones shit themselves are one thing, but Kirk Hastings?
Emma: You're not... busy, are you?
Joe: ARE YOU.
Emma: You're not.. busy
Joe: ARE YOU
Chuck: All right, Jesus, fine.
nDr. Joe:Finally, Chuck, you're a living excuse to do one of the Mormonism articles. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Mormons/sickos.htm
Dr. Emma: I think you'll find this article sort of misrepresents the religion.
- Mormons are a sick group of people. Their entire religion is a sex-perverted religion, founded by sexual degenerate Joseph Smith in 1830. The Mormon religion is plagued with child molestation and child abuse. As bad as the Catholic Church is concerning child abuse, at least they don't try to justify it with their doctrines. Mormonism is a sicko false religion. Here a law firm wholly dedicated to the preponderance of Mormon, Catholic, and other religious sexual abuse: [link to a site that no longer exists, stopmmormonsexualabuse.com]
- Mormon doctrines promote sex-abuse, period! Mormonism's entire core philosophy is that Mormons are expected to provide more earthly bodies for waiting spirits in a lower heaven, to enable them to earn a higher celestial state. This heresy is as bizarre as it is unbiblical. So if a little girl is taught from the time she's born that heaven is counting on her to be sexual active... well, you get the picture.
Dr. Emma: Jesus Christ, not even the likes of Kirk could get something this impressively opposite reality into his crumbly dome of a head. I think the last thing on the Mormon leadership's mind is a scheme to churn out fresh new squadrons of sluts.
Dr. Morrison: They're too busy throwing tithe money at any napkin with "Joseph Smith's son was the heir to the church" written on it in Sharpie.
- One of the dirty little secrets that the newsmedia doesn't tell the public in Mormon sex abuse cases, is that the molested children are often happy to be victimized, because they've been brainwashed to think they are serving the Mormon god. Literally, many Mormon children have been brainwashed by their Mormon parents to look forward to being sexually molested, which is why public photos have been released of Mormon leader, Warren Jeffs, kissing and fondling his 12-year old WIVES!
nDr. Joe: Damn that news media, if they'd told you that, you'd be the first hopeful with a pressed jacket and a dream in your pocket, knocking on Jeffs's door for a piece of that action. You've already exhausted all the mail order children whose descriptions contained the magic words "both tight and loose."
The following is a quite witty diatribe between THE MORMON GOD and PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH THOMAS S. MONSON, who, as you know, speaks directly to God.
Mormon God: And I command you all to be perfect... LY WHORISH.
Monson: But no coffee.
Mormon God: Unless that's what gets you off.
Monson: No, God, remember, I specifically requested that exception only be made for me.
Mormon God: Ugh, it's 1978 all over again. I couldn't keep track of this shit eighty atonements ago.
For some reason, The Mormon God sounds like Brian Blessed in my mind.
- Mormons masquerade as true Christians, but they are of the Devil. Few people ever come to recognize the true occult nature and satanic depth of the Mormon cult. If you do some research, you will learn quickly that the common denominator between all false so-called Christian religions in America is Freemasonry.
- Mormonism is steeped in Jewish Kabbala. Freemasonry, Judaism, Kaballa and Mormonism are ALL SEX-BASED CULTS!!! The very emblem of Freemasonry—the compass and the carpenter's square—symbolizes sexual intercourse.
Dr. Emma: I know you're jealous at just how creepy the Mormon Church's esoteric cult rituals can be without having to resort to the use of "PRESS HERE AND I GIGGLE" Elmo-shaped underwear like what's used in your attic, Stewart, but you don't have to take out your shame on the Jewish Kabbala. Oh yeah, so fucking Satanic. The sheer shifty subterfuge of spending afternoons shaking the Bible upside-down and shelling out for 400 dollar pamphlets on how the squiggly lines of ancient Hebrew glyphs form a slinkie on the three dimension plane.
nDr Joe: What are they going to do, compose a scroll at you? "ihh, they'll HARM meee"
- Why is it that Americans are being policed with trained guard dogs, bag searches, strip searches, naked body scans, TSA pat downs and groping, Darth Vader looking thug cops, and an increasingly intolerant attitude toward innocent citizens? Yet, meanwhile, families in Afghanistan are totally helpless against the thug drug lords that are stealing their 7-year old daughters to be raped by the global elite. NATO actually protects the criminals. Afghan farmers are forced to grow opium because other forms of honest living are not allowed nor practical in a corrupt system.
Through cleverly designed newsmedia propaganda, white-washing and deliberate disinformation (lying and deceiving), the globalist owned and controlled newsmedia has been able to suppress the blatant horrendous crimes of the global elite themselves [which includes the 911 attacks, the Iraqi war, and the ongoing farming of opium (heroine) crops in Afghanistan and thug stealing of Afghan's little girls to supply the insatiable pedophile appetite of the globalists.]
nDr Joe: There's nothing I despise quite like teenagery THE WORLD IS CROOKED I'M THE FUCKING BEST dinguses like you who think they know everything about Afghanistan after reading half an article on Yahoo's front page. You're the type who hears about some scandal and instantly extrapolates that behavior to ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE in that racket. Shut the fuck up, Stewart. Although, it's a rare dingus indeed who seriously believes NATO trafficks sex slaves. I suppose Bush himself flung 7-year-old Afghani girls at the Towers until they exploded. Oh, and thanks for the clarification on what "deliberate disinformation" means, but not all of us have had our grey matter replaced with trouts.
Dr. Morrison: What does this have anything to do with Mormonism? Why, they're all part of the same faceless Satanic mob, despite them all teaching and believing completely different things, but they're all in league because in paranoid evangelical world, there exist only REAL TRUE CHRISTIANS and OTHERS/SATAN.
Next, he continues confusing the mainstream Mormon church with FLDS, and a particular FLDS cult at that (all the articles are about Jeffs).
- Mormon Temple Beds
- My Christian opinion is that Mormons are anti-family. Mormons are a bunch of rich perverts who want your daughters. Inside their elaborate temples they have beds. It is more than weird, it is revealing of their activities. What church has a bed in it? ...
Dr. Morrison: Churches with infirmaries might.
nDr. Joe: Shhh
- The Mormon church is a satanic sex-cult and always will be. You can't change a carnivorous wolf into a vegetarian. Mormonism is Joe Smith. The religion was founded in 1830. It has a history that rivals the bloodthirsty Roman Catholic church, raping and murdering entire towns. I believe Mormons are secretive because of sexual and occult imagery in their temples. Secret handshakes are 100% the occult. Mormons are sneaky, posting some basic teachings similar to the Christian faith; but then they fail to tell people the rest of the story. Mormon beliefs could easily pass for a Stephen King science-fiction novel.
Dr. Morrison: They practiced their 100% secret handshakes while they were raping entire towns, I bet. THOSE SNEAKY MORMONS
Dr. Emma: Through another stupid evangelical site, he cites a site called THE MORMON CONSPIRACY TO RULE AMERICA, which I think would be great material for your next podcast, Chuck.
Okay, the real reason we chose this article is to finally have a good row at Stewart about pedophilia. Now, we have adjured listeners to run a google search on "David J. Stewart" and see what comes up. But now that he has fulminated against the elite cabal of shadowy pedophiles who mastermind the news media and international organizations, but for some reason they had to orchestrate a war to get their hands on 7-year-old Afghani girls, it's time we elucidated the process by which some intrepid investigators discovered DJS is a child molestor.
Courtesy of http://davidjstewartexposed.blogspot.com/ , whose tagline is Exposing, in love, the errant ministry of David J. Stewart. Essentially, after hearing of the accusations, they saw that he lived in Guam, scanned the evil media there, and wouldn't you know it, a David John Stewart was indicted for engaging in sex with a minor in January 2009, as reported by several articles of Pacific Daily News.
- After acquiring the July 1, 2009 screenshot showing that David J. Stewart lives on Guam, he has now changed the article, as of 7/11/09, to say that he is in Micronesia
Dr. Morrison: Sure, that'll work.
- 1/28/09 - Pacific Daily News
"Criminal sexual conduct charge - David John Stewart, 41, has been charged in the Superior Court of Guam with second-degree criminal sexual conduct as a first-degree felony. According to the magistrate's complaint, on or about the period of Jan. 1, 2006, through Dec. 31, 2006, Stewart allegedly engaged in sexual contact with a teenage girl known to him.
- Stewart's age is also corroborated on the website.
- Furthermore, we found out he pled guiltyas part of a plea bargain. An email from Maria T. Cenzon, Director of Policy Planning and Community Relations at the Guam Judicial Center:
According to public records on file with the Superior Court of Guam, Mr. Stewart was charged with 2nd Degree Criminal Sexual Conduct as a 1st Degree Felony. He was also charged with Child Abuse as a Misdemeanor. He initially pled not guilty, but later entered into a plea agreement, pleading guilty to Child Abuse on October 29, 2010. The terms of the judgment include a fine of $100; 2 years supervised probation; 100 hours of community service; stay away from victim; not threaten/strike/injure the victim; report to Client Services for counseling; report to Dept of Mental Health and Substance Abuse; Turn in passport; not leave Guam; comply with court orders; obey all laws of Guam. He has a progress hearing scheduled for February 14, 2011 at 9 a.m. before the Honorable Judge Anita Sukola.
nDr. Joe: So when he shrieks about the lesbian court system, let's just say that condemnation is probably a bit emotionally charged.
It should be noted that they also found his dating site profile (which Stewart took down and censored) which stated he liked Michael Jackson, the Beatles, the BeeGees, Boston, and the Beach Boys. A wee bit hypocritical, ain't we, lad.
So... NATO is trafficking sex slaves? Methinks someone's protesting too much. Davey boy should remember his gospels: remove the beam from your eye before commenting on the mote in another's eye
The Hastings Prophecies: In Theaters Next YearEdit
The episode of Evidence 4 Faith in question is the Oct. 27, 2009 one.
7 “specific” prophecies, each of which there is universal agreement that is was written long before the events themselves occurred.
Ems: I don't think we can begin without mentioning the hilarious shennanigans that Keith and Dr Mike get up to at the start of the show. We would share the jokes they make with you, but we don't want you to split your sides laughing. Let's just say I cried, but not with laughter. And apparently these guys have a 'sound engineer' - it's a podcast dude. You talk and record it. WTF do you need a 'sound engineer' for? (can you imagine?) Now onto the meat of the podcast, and this is some really, really mutated meat. The whole topic of this E4F episode is that there are some prophecies in the Bible that have come true. These guys believe that the Bible is the word of God. God is omniscient. So, if he said what was going to happen happens, that's meant to be a miraculous suprise? I don't get it.
Oh, and BTW, you have ALL experienced a miracle in your life, and DNA is "a God thing". I think I'm gonna use both those phrases on a daily basis. Next time someone asks me how I formatted a table in a word document, I'm just gonna say "It's a God thing", or tell them that I just experienced a miracle in my life. Done.
The prophecies that we are going to discuss today are apparently acknowledged as being fulfilled by ALL historians. Yes, there is universal agreement that this shit is true and real and that what was prophsied actually happened. Any historians listening that didn't receive that email asking if they believe this to be the case, let us know and we'll forward it on. I'm sure they missed at least one or two
Stupid Prophecy #1: A general kind of prophecyEdit
[[starts at 13:23]]
“All the peoples on earth will be blessed through you, Abraham.” “Fulfilled” through spread of Christianity, “worldwide influence from Abrahamic heritage.”
Dr. Morrison: Good lord.
nDr. Joe: My Oxford Annotated has the passage as:
- "I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse; and in you all the families of the Earth shall be blessed."
- Just to clarify, Keith makes sure we know who Abraham was. He was a (quote unquote) guy wandering around in the desert.
If the families of the Earth stand for nations post-Christianity, who in this scenario are the cursed ones? Can't be Muslims or Jews, neither would curse Abraham. I don't think Buddhists or Hindus are exerting very much effort silently insulting Abraham either. It's got to be us atheists.
Footnote says that while Paul may have interepreted this line in the Septuagint Greek translation of the Bible as a blessing of the Gentiles through Abraham, the original Hebrew meaning was probably closer to "the families of the Earth will bless themselves in Abraham's name"--that is to say, they'll look upon Abraham's (extremely arbitrary) blessings and wish them for themselves. And the line is part of a larger narrative that's basically just God telling Abraham that if he travels to the Promised Land, he will receive blessings, wealth that'd make every other clan jealous.
E4F claims to respect the Bible--isn't it ironic how nonbelievers are the only ones who give it its due?
Ems note: All the people's on the Earth will be blessed. Um, how's that working for your Syria, Somalia and Rwanda? Oh wait, I've got this all wrong. This must be like when that American politician said that a child of rape was a blessing from God. I guess my understanding of the word "blessing" has been totally wrong for the whole of my life.
Dr. Morrison: You know what's hilarious? History bears out practically none of God's many, multifarious "promised land" prophecies. In Exodus 23:31 God promises to give the Israelites all the land from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea and from the Euphrates River to "the desert."
Ems: You know what else is funny? These knobs say that "Christianity is the dominant religion in the world", whereas the CIA World Factbook says that 33.3% of people in the world are Christians. Last time I checked, one third is not exactly "dominant". But I'm not a statistician or anything, so...
Stupid Prophecy #2: Israel's formation in 1948Edit
[[starts at 17:17]]
Regathering of the nation of Israel from the "4 corners," fulfilled 2,000 years later in the formation of Israel.
- Isaiah 11:12: He will raise a banner for the nation and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.
Dr. Emma: Evidently, evangelicals think this is some unthinkable miracle possible only through divine intervention. Never before has a nation been conceived for the Jews like this! And, most impressively of all, it only took millennia of persecution, two catastrophic world wars, and a little pinch of genocide! And years of diplomatic back and forth. And the settlement of already settled land. It went absolutely without a hitch and it's not like a nation would naturally prophesize a glorious future for itself or anything, why the very idea is absurd
nDr. Joe: Some Christian blog I stumbled upon was crowing about how Israel would take in Ethiopian Jews by 2014 or something. "I sure hope those Ethiopian Jews settle in Israel as fast as possible, I'm really rather impatient for the end of the world when Jesus meteor kicks them all to hell!" All this hullabuloo from the chapter that also says the following
- The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion ... And the lion shall eat straw like the ox."
I've already lined up for the iMax experience.
Ems: God has really been testing this prophecy out over the last few weeks artillery style. I'm sensing some self-sabotage or fear of success here. God, Israel exists. Your prophecy came true. Just leave it alone, FFS.
Stupid Prophecy #3: Tyre troublesEdit
- I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you ... they will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers. I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock ... she will become plunder for the nations and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword ... From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar ... I will make you a bare rock and you will become a place to bring fishnets. You will never be rebuilt.
Dr. Morrison: This is Ezekiel 26, set in the 6th century BC. 585-572 BC, Neb laid siege to Tyre.
Then, apparently, “further fulfillment” happened in 332 BC (100 years after canon closed); Alexander the Great attacked the island portion of Tyre, built 200 foot causeway in waters 20 feet deep out of building materials of mainland.
- “Still used as a place by fishermen to dry their nets because it is a flat area of bedrock.”
Kirk goes on to comment that Antigonus attacked in 314 BC, and the Muslims attacked in AD 1291.
Yet Ezekiel admits he was wrong 3 CHAPTERS LATER:
- In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month on the first day, the word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon drove his army in a hard campaign against Tyre; every head was rubbed bare and every shoulder made raw. Yet he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre. Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he will carry off its wealth. He will loot and plunder the land as pay for his army. I have given him Egypt as a reward for his efforts because he and his army did it for me, declares the Sovereign LORD.
Dr. Emma: It's obvious they're not thinking of these random Bible passages they've fetched in the context of their ongoing narrative.
nDr. Joe: Apologetics is the fucking worst.
Dr. Morrison: And more obviously, if you actually bother to research history beyond seeing "Tyre" and "Nebuchadnezzar" in the same sentence, you would realize that Nebuchadnezzar never destroyed it. Nebuchadnezzar’s seige ended in 573 BC with a negotiated settlement. He never did destroy the city, and so Ezekiel's prophecy did not occur. Well, at lthe very least, the "the city will never be rebuilt" thing did come to pass, but only because ol' Nebby never touched it in the first place.
REAL HISTORY: After a 13 year siege Nebuchadnezzar withdrew his forces. Tyre survived quite prosperously after that for another 240 years until it was done away with by Alexander the Great. I'd like for it to be recorded that E4F found out about the 200 foot causeway in waters 20 feet deep, but not that Alexander was the one who did all of the destroying.
26:08-- "So there's a mathematician, professor..."
He calculated over ten years that the chances of this happening just by chance are 1 in 75 billion.
This argument is so stupid. A thought experiment: point randomly in the air. What are the odds that the 6,703,607,132nd molecule of keratin at the very tip of your right index fingernail hit that exact planck's length in space? 1 in a kajillion. Did it just happen? YES! If you add enough variables, of course the probability going to turn out to be 1 in some scary-looking big number. But that doesn't mean it can't happen, because every other variation is just as unlikely! What are the odds that Nebuchadnezzar's first step into Tyre spanned precisely 1.4367282 feet? Probably 1 in a kajillion kajillion. Any other resonable span is literally just as likely. But your idiot mathematician would spend the rest of his days calculating the exact odds. I get that the idea is that it's linking the event to a prophecy that supposedly predicts it perfectly, but my gripe here is the use of really long odds to sound impressive. The odds that my shit hit that exact grid of planck's lengths, and the water's molecules form waves the way it did is probably 1 in googolplex to the googolplex, but there it floats, my miraculous stool.
Dr. Emma: Okay, so addressing the idea that the prophecy is matching all these multifarious variables, I'd really like to see this mathematician's work here. What, was he trying to factor in how Tyre purportedly came to ruins? It can't be too terribly difficult to predict how a city might fall.
- From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar.
Maybe the only tactic that made sense was attacking from the north? Maybe the only power that was plausibly ever going to be attacking Tyre would be Nebuchadnezzar. Those would be my assumptions. I certainly wouldn't assume it was the creator of the universe feeding him this mostly redundant and trivial information.
- The settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword.
As opposed to what?
Was the mathematician focusing on the time they think it happened? We have people who can predict international relations with reasonable accuracy. The E4F guys claim that no way anybody would have thought Tyre would come down. So what, they were all as bereft of imagination as you are?
Dr. Morrison: Poor guy, spending ten years working out the precise amazigness of a prophecy that's blatantly wrong.
By the way, the reason God hates Tyre so much is because it was a commercial rival to Jerusalem, gloating after Jerusalem's downfall. God's so awe-inspiring, it ony took 13 years of stalemate siege warfare to fail to take down the city.
Stupid Prophecy #4: AlexanderEdit
- And now I will tell you the truth: Behold, three more kings will arise in Persia, and the fourth shall be far richer than them all; by his strength, through his riches, he shall stir up all against the realm of Greece. Then a mighty king shall arise, who shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. And when he has arisen, his kingdom shall be broken up and divided toward the four winds of heaven, but not among his posterity nor according to his dominion with which he ruled; for his kingdom shall be uprooted, even for others besides these.
nDr. Joe: I must ask--why these particular things to prophesize?
Dr. Emma: God's self-imposed editorial constraints to keep things interesting. Anyway, the Book of Daniel is a dream logic allegorical flurry; most of is describing its own period, the desceration of the temple at Jerusalem by the Greek ruler of the Jews, Antiochus. Quoth Wikipedia:
In particular, the vision in Chapter 11, which focuses on a series of wars between the "King of the North" and the "King of the South", is generally interpreted as a record of Levantine history from the time of Alexander the Great down to the era of Antiochus IV, with the "Kings of the North" being the Seleucid kings of Syria and the "Kings of the South" being the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt. In Hebrew numerology, the name Nebuchadnezzar contains a veiled reference to Antiochus Epiphanes sharing a numerical value in Gematria, a system of assigning numerical value to a word or phrase, in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other, or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to a person's age, the calendar year, or the like.
I hope you understood any of that, Chuck.
Dr. Morrison: In other words, this wasn't prophecy, this was history class.
And as always, real history is far more fascinating than fake history.
Dr. Emma: It also bears mentioning that, once again, it's blatantly wrong. There were more than four kings of Persia.
Stupid Prophecy #5: The Kingdom of EdomEdit
“Edom shall become a horror. Everyone who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss because of all its disasters. As when Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring cities were overthrown, says the Lord, no man shall dwell there, no man shall sojourn in her.
E4F: And it wasn't until 19th century that Edom's capital city of Petra was rediscovered!
Dr. Morrison: I suppose everybody only started hissing at all of its disasters then?
Dr. Emma: The Edomites, said to be the descendants of the Biblical brother of Jacob, Esau, were in fact wiped out by the Babylonians. Interestingly, some Christians think that the so-called "Curse of Esau" still lies with modern day Arabs. Let that sink in. And then hiss at it. nDr. Joe: Personally, I like how they were impressed with how accurately God foretold Edom's doom, but thought nothing of Edom's becoming so plagued and horrible in the first place. Did the Edomites really deserve such an awful fate? Not even on their radar. GOD IS SO GREAT YOU GUYS, HE PREDICTS THINGS SO GOOD
Dr. Emma: GOD PREDICTED PERFECTLY THAT THE FIRE WOULD EAT THAT FATHER OF FOUR'S EYES, HALLOW HIS NAME AND SING HALLELUJAH
Prophecy of Edom? Pfft - too cheesy for me.
Stupid Prophecy #6: Seventy weeksEdit
[[starts at 34:44]]
- Know and understand this: from the issuing of the decrees to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed one, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.
Artaxerxes in 457 BC (Ezra 7:11-26) announced that Israel could return to its city and rebuild the temple. Add 483 years = 26 AD, beginning of Jesus’s ministry.
The classical interpretation also ignores the obvious parallels between Daniel 9:24-27 on the one hand, and Daniel 8:9-26; 11:31-45 on the other. Actually, all three passages unmistakably describe Antiochus Epiphanes committing a desolating sacrilege or "abomination that makes desolate" at the Temple and bringing normal Jewish sacrifices to an end for about three and a half years (cf. Daniel 7:25; 12:6-7,11). Daniel 9 places this event at the end of the seventy weeks, and the other two passages place it at "the time of the end." The "abominations" of "the prince who is to come" in Daniel 9 are to be understood in the light of the unspeakable blasphemies of Antiochus Epiphanes described in the other two passages (cf. also Daniel 7:8,20,25).
-- There was no Year Zero!
-- Other declarations:
1. The decree from Cyrus in 539 BC. (see Ezra 1:1-4)
- 1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:
- 2 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:
- “‘The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. 3 Any of his people among you may go up to Jerusalem in Judah and build the temple of the LORD, the God of Israel, the God who is in Jerusalem, and may their God be with them. 4 And in any locality where survivors may now be living, the people are to provide them with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with freewill offerings for the temple of God in Jerusalem.’”
2. The decree from Darius in 519 BC. (see Ezra 6:1-12)
- 1 King Darius then issued an order, and they searched in the archives stored in the treasury at Babylon. 2 A scroll was found in the citadel of Ecbatana in the province of Media, and this was written on it:
- 3 In the first year of King Cyrus, the king issued a decree concerning the temple of God in Jerusalem:
- Let the temple be rebuilt as a place to present sacrifices, and let its foundations be laid. It is to be sixty cubits high and sixty cubits wide, 4 with three courses of large stones and one of timbers. The costs are to be paid by the royal treasury. 5 Also, the gold and silver articles of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, are to be returned to their places in the temple in Jerusalem; they are to be deposited in the house of God.
- 6 Now then, Tattenai, governor of Trans-Euphrates, and Shethar-Bozenai and you other officials of that province, stay away from there. 7 Do not interfere with the work on this temple of God. Let the governor of the Jews and the Jewish elders rebuild this house of God on its site.
- 8 Moreover, I hereby decree what you are to do for these elders of the Jews in the construction of this house of God:
- Their expenses are to be fully paid out of the royal treasury, from the revenues of Trans-Euphrates, so that the work will not stop. 9 Whatever is needed—young bulls, rams, male lambs for burnt offerings to the God of heaven, and wheat, salt, wine and olive oil, as requested by the priests in Jerusalem—must be given them daily without fail, 10 so that they may offer sacrifices pleasing to the God of heaven and pray for the well-being of the king and his sons.
- 11 Furthermore, I decree that if anyone defies this edict, a beam is to be pulled from their house and they are to be impaled on it. And for this crime their house is to be made a pile of rubble. 12 May God, who has caused his Name to dwell there, overthrow any king or people who lifts a hand to change this decree or to destroy this temple in Jerusalem.
- I Darius have decreed it. Let it be carried out with diligence.
3. The decree from Artaxerxes to Ezra in 457 BC. (see Ezra 7:11-18)
- 11 This is a copy of the letter King Artaxerxes had given to Ezra the priest, a teacher of the Law, a man learned in matters concerning the commands and decrees of the LORD for Israel:
- 12 Artaxerxes, king of kings,
- To Ezra the priest, teacher of the Law of the God of heaven:
- 13 Now I decree that any of the Israelites in my kingdom, including priests and Levites, who volunteer to go to Jerusalem with you, may go. 14 You are sent by the king and his seven advisers to inquire about Judah and Jerusalem with regard to the Law of your God, which is in your hand. 15 Moreover, you are to take with you the silver and gold that the king and his advisers have freely given to the God of Israel, whose dwelling is in Jerusalem, 16 together with all the silver and gold you may obtain from the province of Babylon, as well as the freewill offerings of the people and priests for the temple of their God in Jerusalem. 17 With this money be sure to buy bulls, rams and male lambs, together with their grain offerings and drink offerings, and sacrifice them on the altar of the temple of your God in Jerusalem.
- 18 You and your fellow Israelites may then do whatever seems best with the rest of the silver and gold, in accordance with the will of your God. 19 Deliver to the God of Jerusalem all the articles entrusted to you for worship in the temple of your God. 20 And anything else needed for the temple of your God that you are responsible to supply, you may provide from the royal treasury.
4. The decree from Artaxerxes to Nehemiah in 444 BC. (see Nehemiah 2:1-8)
- 1 In the month of Nisan in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was brought for him, I took the wine and gave it to the king. I had not been sad in his presence before, 2 so the king asked me, “Why does your face look so sad when you are not ill? This can be nothing but sadness of heart.”
- I was very much afraid, 3 but I said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not look sad when the city where my ancestors are buried lies in ruins, and its gates have been destroyed by fire?”
- 4 The king said to me, “What is it you want?”
- Then I prayed to the God of heaven, 5 and I answered the king, “If it pleases the king and if your servant has found favor in his sight, let him send me to the city in Judah where my ancestors are buried so that I can rebuild it.”
- 6 Then the king, with the queen sitting beside him, asked me, “How long will your journey take, and when will you get back?” It pleased the king to send me; so I set a time.
- 7 I also said to him, “If it pleases the king, may I have letters to the governors of Trans-Euphrates, so that they will provide me safe-conduct until I arrive in Judah? 8 And may I have a letter to Asaph, keeper of the royal park, so he will give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel by the temple and for the city wall and for the residence I will occupy?” And because the gracious hand of my God was on me, the king granted my requests.
Timing of the decreeEdit
Isaiah 44:28: God predicts Cyrus will command Jerusalem and the Temple to be rebuilt
Isaiah 45:1: God calls Cyrus his anointed (“messiah”)
One aspect of the 70 weeks prophecy is that it specifies a specific starting point in history before the countdown, as it were, begins. In this case it is an edict to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple in Jerusalem. Five edicts concerning reconstruction in Judaea are recorded in the Bible.
A decree permitting rebuilding of the 2nd Temple (Ezra 1:2-4) issued by Cyrus in the first year of his reign (539-536 BC, depending on reckoning system)
A decree restarting the construction of the 2nd Temple after a lull and confirming Cyrus' earlier decree (Ezra 6:3-12) granted by Darius in his second year (520-518 BC for Darius Hystaspes, 422-420 BC for Darius Nothus)
A decree issued by an "Artaxerxes" in his seventh year (459-457 BC for Artaxerxes Longimanus, 398-397 BC for Artaxerxes Memnon), authorizing the use of certain articles for the temple rites, expenses for building, animals for sacrifices, religious liberty, tax-free status, and liberty to set up state and judicial system (Ezra 7:12-26).
A decree authorizing the reconstruction of the city of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:4-9), granted by an “Artaxerxes” in his 20th year. (446-444 BC for Artaxerxes Longimanus, 385-384 BC for Artaxerxes Memnon)
A divine decree issued by God in the 2nd year of Darius I (Hystaspes) commanding Joshua and Zerubbabel to restart construction on the Temple and Jerusalem. These divine commands were witnessed by the two prophets Haggai and Zechariah. (Ezra 6:14, Zechariah 1:16)
Many Christian interpreters, following Sir Robert Anderson and/or Harold W. Hoehner, have held that only the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus explicitly allows for the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem. However, this particular idea does not actually have strong scriptural support. The Bible itself is arguably more directly supportive of the decree of Cyrus or Darius being the key initiating edict (see Isa. 44:28;45:13 Zech.1:16, Ezra 6:14), with many Jews adhering to this same belief.
Other authors have speculated the decree, in a divine prophecy, could be a divine command, which God's responses to Ezra's (several months after his decree was issued) or Nehemiah's prayer (in the month of Kislev the year before his decree was issued) would presumably represent. Jeremiah's prophecies of desolation at the fall of Jerusalem are also supplied as an opening date. Here it is said that the first seven weeks end at the Cyrus decree (exactly 49 years after the Fall of Jerusalem).
From the Jewish perspective, the Hebrew word davar (דבר) (understood previously as decree) also means word or thing. Rashi, accordingly, does not set the starting point (of the weeks) from a decree to rebuild the second temple, but from the destruction of the First Temple. Rashi understands Daniel 9:25 that Daniel's prayer (to understand when Jerusalem would be rebuilt) is being referred to (not as a starting point). According to Rashi, no starting point (for the weeks) is directly mentioned, but is rather understood based on Daniel 9:2. Furthermore, Daniel 9:24 clearly does not give a staring point for the seventy weeks. The issue of a starting point only comes up in Daniel 9:25 in regard to the seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. Another interpretation does understand Daniel 9:25 as giving a starting point, in line with Rashi, from the destruction of the First Temple. First note Daniel 9:2 in regard to God's word (davar) to Jeremiah that Jerusalem would remain destroyed for seventy years (after which it would be rebuilt). In this interpretation, the starting point is not the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, but the word of God to Jeremiah concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem, which took effect when the first temple was destroyed.
Modern Biblical scholars, the Jewish Encyclopedia, the Jewish Publication Society study bible, the Catholic New American Bible and some Evangelical Christian scholars (Vanderwaal, Goldingay, Lucas) all concur that it was an ex eventu prophecy fulfilled in the time of Antiochus Epiphanes who is interpreted as "the prince" in Daniel 9:26. The "anointed," mentioned after the first seven times seven units, must be Cyrus, who is called the anointed of the Lord in Isa. xlv. 1 also. He concluded the first seven weeks of years by issuing the decree of liberation, and the time that elapsed between the Chaldean destruction of Jerusalem (586) and the year 538 was just about forty-nine years. The duration of the sixty-two times seven units (434 years) does not correspond with the time 538-171 (367 years); but the chronological knowledge of that age and the historical knowledge of the author was not very exact. This is all the more evident as the last period of seven units must include the seven years 170-164. This week of years began with the "cutting off of an anointed one" (9:26)— referring to the murder of the legitimate high priest Onias III (compare Lev. iv. 3 et seq. on the anointing of the priest) in 170 BC; the "destruction of the city" (9:26) refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the desolation of the Temple in 168 BC by the forces of Antiochus (1 Macc 1:29-39); the "unto the end of the war" (9:26) refers to the end of the Sixth Syrian War when Antiochus vented his anger on Jerusalem after suffering a humiliating defeat against Egypt (cf Daniel 11:30); the "strong covenant" (9:27) refers to a treaty between apostate Jews and Antiochus; the "cessation of sacrifice and offering" (9:27) refers to the decree of Antiochus suspending temple offerings in 167 BC; the "abomination that causes desolation" (9:27) refers to the altar of Zeus which Antiochus set up in the temple; and the anointing of the Holy of Holies (9:24) refers to the reconsecration of the Temple in 164 BC.
Christmas and the Daniel 9 ProphecyEdit
Daniel written between 400-500? Skeptics claimed it was written much later, like in 300 BC (you can actually date when it was written because his “prophecies” were very accurate up to a point, then it goes wildly astray).
In this podcast, they pinpoint the Artaxerxes decree at 458 BC, correctly noting that there is no Year Zero, and again getting to 26 AD as the date of fulfillment of the prophecy. Why the change between podcasts? Did the date of the decree change in between?
Dead Sea Scrolls and Prophecy
They place the end date of the prophecy to 30AD, when Jesus came into Jerusalem.
the people who went up to Jesus and asked "are you the Messiah?" must have heard about the prophecy!
Or, I dunno, it could have been because he was telling everybody he was the Messiah. Fuck are you two dumb. What, were they pointing at Jesus in the distance and going, hey, that guy totally fulfills the seventy weeks prophecy!
Stupid Prophecy #7: Various biblical Jesus prophecies, I guess.Edit
Of which there are supposedly 60. I found a site that has them.
Let's treat some of the funnier ones.
- Isaiah 7:14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Is the error here
a) "Virgin" should have been translated to "maiden" or "young girl"
b) The Lord could have picked a way better sign
c) The line is in the context of a historical narrative that describes the conflicts between Judah and Assyria and the concern it struck in King Ahaz and the House of David, with no focus on the Messiah whatsoever
or d) HIS NAME ISN'T IMMANUEL.
They can't even wait til they reach the end of the damn sentence they're citing before they desperately toss it into the air, these apologists. And that's not even getting into how half of these "prophecies" are from the BOOK OF PSALMS. You know, plain poetry with no prophetic intention.
Here's the full passage!
- Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.
All of the 60 purported Jesus prophecies are like this--if you read them without having a mind to pick out quotes for Jesus, it'd never occur to you. Because you'd be reading them as parts of their own stories, where they belong. If God had wanted the Bible to prophecy the coming of Jesus, then why didn't he simply do it as clearly as possible?
- Isaiah 11:1: A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
Yeah, like that! Clear, precise, simple. What an amazing prophecy! "Christologists" like to trot out Isaiah a lot.
Dr. Emma: Moreover, the prophecies that do have some connection to Jesus beyond a couple of buzzwords were probably just guiding how the writers of the gospels described Jesus so that he fit what they perceived to have been the scripturally mandated prerequisites for the Messiah. The E4F episode constantly denies any such thing could have happened with other Biblical prophecies, only the other way around. They claim that skeptics explain away prophecies by saying the prophecies themselves were changed to reflect what had happened. That... doesn't make any sense. If somebody were retroactively placing prophecies they knew were fulfilled, why wouldn't they be WAY more specific? It's just an asinine, clueless charge to level. Anyway, as an example of something truly absurd worked into the gospels to fulfill a prior "prophecy":
- Zechariah 9:9: Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
Matthew, the dumbest of the gospels, actually has Jesus riding a donkey and a colt simultaneously. The Gospel authors were no less keen to cherry-pick the Bible than are modern apologists. Only in the ancients' case it's fascinating and in the case of apologists today it's beyond pathetic.
The kicker is that these prophets? They weren't gazing off into the far future, for our benefit. They were writing about the goings-on of their own times, since every other generation's social commentators probably thought the world was going to hell in a handbasket and would lie in ruins before they died. Our own included.
FUN WITH FAILED PROPHECIESEdit
Here's some unequivocally failed prophecies!
- The descendants of David and Solomon will rule over Israel forever!
The Davidic line ended with King Zedekiah in about 586 BC.
* Ezekiel 29:8-12 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee. And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it. Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.
Yeah no. This has never been close to true. Ezekiel also prophecied that "Nebuchadnezzar" would destroy Egypt (Ezekiel 30:10-11), but Nebby tasted defeat after his only attack on Egypt.
- Isaiah claims that the Nile and the oceans would evaporate within the age of pagan Egypt (Isaiah 19:1-8). According to Isaiah 19:18, Egyptians will learn the tongue of the Canaanites. It's a dead language now.